Curse

dopper · Aug 27, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Hi

I have a simple little question

Given the new trend of monks, i.e blessed light monks, we have started using 1

however, i understand that 2 blessed lights are slightly underpowered at VoD (given the discussions about the iQ v. EvIL match).

However, hex degen builds are also becoming more popular and can be a pain without a b-light monkey

so, here's my question....

if u do take 1 b-light and 1 boonprot, are u compromising. 2 boonprots are effective against melee, and 2 b-light monks are effective against heavy degen. If u take 1 of each, will u be ineffective against both?

thanx

TheOneMephisto · Aug 27, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

IT honesly depends on the build. BL monks work fine at VoD, it's only /A BLs that don't work so well. I personally prefer the one BL one boonprot for most balanced builds, just because boonprots have the big heals and fast spike saves, while BLs can deal with degen.

If you ahve good hex control (like expel mesmer and the like) then two boonprots becomes my favored choice.

Neo-LD · Aug 27, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

To clarify, the reason why the B-Light monks didnt work very well at VoD was because they didnt have enough energy management to keep up with a massive VoD flagstand battle, and that EvIL's entire team defense relied on personal mitigation and kiting (Dark Escape etc). However, the Guild Lord doesnt have Dark Escape and doesnt kite, so they lost when iQ put their full damage on him.

If your B-Light monks are /Me, they arent underpowered at a VoD flagstand battle at all - they will have plenty of management. I also have never heard that B-Light monks are somehow weak against melee... more accurately, they are weak to spike and shutdown. You are correct that they are strong against degen.

Boon / B-Light is a very strong backline used by many guilds. They synergize to cover and shore up eachother's weaknesses, not amplify them.

Drewfense · Aug 27, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

It isn't that the BLight is ineffective against melee, if anything it is better versus melee than the boon prot. It just lacks raw healing power so during iQ/EviL VoD, iQ had a ton of AoE (smiter + trapper or GoS meteor shower...don't remember which atm) and BLights lack reactionary healing so they have problems keeping up. This is compounded with assassin Blights who depend on Sig Devo for energy management, the time sacrificed casting can be to much at VoD. The best monk in that situation is actually a healing monk...

Anyways, don't be stuck to one backline. Know the weaknesses/strengths of each type of backline and choose the monks according to your build. BLights are weak on pure healing so I would go two BLights if your team has a strong heal party ele. If not, and you have good single/double hex removal (empathic/expel/mez with remove), then booners are the way to go. There are a lot more things to consider, but this is a quick and easy way to think of it.

dopper · Aug 27, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

thanx all

yea, i suppose flexibillty is an important aspect

will do some experimenting to find whats works best

cookiemonkie · Aug 28, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

The Evil BL monks held their own and held for a long time at VoD. Monk backline Mo/A had little to do with that as Evil wasn't dishing out the offense they should have and failed to protect their flag amist the AoE chaos.

WM won the finals running Mo/As in a couple of the matches, I just don't see how anyone can draw a concrete conclusion from one small aspect of one match.

Evil made some mistakes with their offensive output and mental mistakes at the end of match 3 that cost them, yeah that happens. And even with that they nearly won that match.

TheOneMephisto · Aug 28, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiemonkie

The Evil BL monks held their own and held for a long time at VoD. Monk backline Mo/A had little to do with that as Evil wasn't dishing out the offense they should have and failed to protect their flag amist the AoE chaos.

WM won the finals running Mo/As in a couple of the matches, I just don't see how anyone can draw a concrete conclusion from one small aspect of one match.

Evil made some mistakes with their offensive output and mental mistakes at the end of match 3 that cost them, yeah that happens. And even with that they nearly won that match.

The thing is that Mo/As really don't ahve the emanagement to keep up with heavy pressure alone. They really need their team to kite effectively and reduce the damage they need to heal.

Evils monks really were running extremely low on energy. In one report I read of a guy who was there on guildwars.com, he said that at one point soul wedding was actually yelling at one star to let him die so he could res with some energy. Since the guild lord can't kite and doesn't ahve dark escape, their plan of damage mitigation was totally destroyed. That's the reason that in at least one of those games (don't remember) their lord fell while both monks were still up and kicking.

Phelann · Aug 29, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Yeah the lack of e management clearly RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed em

Dodo The Extinct · Aug 29, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Slightly off-topic, but what does

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE

mean?

Arkantos · Aug 29, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct

Slightly off-topic, but what does

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE

mean?

Swear filter.

Byron · Aug 29, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

There are teams searching for alternatives, for sure. Today I saw Storm Bearers running a RC monk and a expel hexes monk, each with smite hex and decent spec into smiting prayers. Maybe the build was good, or maybe the SB monks are 1337, but they kept the team alive while pressuring the enemy with smite hex. If hex builds are coming into fashion, I'd pay attention to how the SB backline develops.

And I'm still waiting for Ritualist healers to come around...

Drewfense · Aug 29, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

And I'm still waiting for Ritualist healers to come around...

There are plenty of ritualist healers. They are just all LFG in Vizunah Square still.

Meownia · Aug 30, 2006, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

And I'm still waiting for Ritualist healers to come around...

We have tried many different variations of rit as an active healer instead of spiritspamming. The biggest problems we have encountered are linked to notice that its too slow - in both spell casting times and health/spell gain - to replace monk. Its heal over time is good, but theres e/mo etherprodigy+heal party, which is usually enough and e/mo is more multitasking than we could ever imagine rit to be.
PnH used pretty nice restoration-rit in some point last season, but their build was highly defensive and rit was like third monk.

Quote:

Storm Bearers running a RC monk and a expel hexes monk, each with smite hex and decent spec into smiting prayers.

If youre interested about that build-idea heres some backround:

That build-idea is still heavily under construction. The main idea is to make room in monks skillbar and attributes by removing energy managements and inspiration magic. Profit from that would be two potential smiters in times when you push lines forward and also when you counter enemy pushes. Smiting prayers allows you to do damage with protective skills and hex removing and divine boon allows you to heal with same skills. Monks gain their energy from third-party blood is power, which potentially is much more energy than any inspiration elite would ever be. Problem is that backline character who gives BiP to monks: If that character gets under heavy pressure it ruins 3 characters from backline because it cant sustain energy for monks and monks need to keep it alive at any cost.

I could continue my essay many pages and use word "potential" 100 times more but I think there were main points.

Byron · Aug 30, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Wow, many thanks for that expulsion. I certainly wasn't expecting SB to actually see and comment on this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meowina

The main idea is to make room in monks skillbar and attributes by removing energy managements and inspiration magic. Profit from that would be two potential smiters in times when you push lines forward and also when you counter enemy pushes.

To me, that is fascinating and almost revolutionary. I will be paying special attention to the [SB] backline from here out.

Quote:

Monks gain their energy from third-party blood is power, which potentially is much more energy than any inspiration elite would ever be.

Very interesting, to make that the energy management. I noticed that during play your necro was in the backline, if not beyond the backline. I'm wondering, what else does a blood necro do from the backline? I don't recall seeing orders...

Quote:

The biggest problems we have encountered are linked to notice that its too slow - in both spell casting times and health/spell gain - to replace monk.

Hard to replace a boon's cast time or a healer's power, no doubt. I think ritualists have a future in GvG outside spirit spam, though.

dopper · Aug 30, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

wow indeed. and thanx indeeed for revealing that. it is a very different idea indeed. And Byron, just for mentioning, we have actually joked around using a blood necro with orders just to fool around abit. will definetly be watching SB's necro

The difference in cast time, even from boonprot to b-light monk was the one thing the monkey mentioned was most different.

We have been running it for a few days now and it does actually seem to work really well...that is, 1 boon prot and 1 b-light

we did face a heavy degen build last night and the pressure was definetly relieved, so i think we're liking the b-light for now

llsektorll · Aug 30, 2006, 07:56 AM // 07:56

good guilds will split off once they see head to head combat is not in their favor. I'd say stick with two boon prots as a personal preference... its also up to the guild monks... whatever they are good at is what they should be playing...

dopper · Aug 30, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

i agree with all of ur points

last night our flashbot err7'd against a very melee heave team and we had a severe shortage of warrior hate

we split immediatly, they didnt respect the gank, and we stole victore by killinng the guild lord in VoD. The blessed light is really usefull when doing a big split where a monk is needed to go help the gankers

and yea, it is most definetly down to personal preference. what works for u is what u should be playing

llsektorll · Aug 30, 2006, 08:19 AM // 08:19

if you want a simplar explanation here it is...

boon prots
fast large heals
can infuse spikes with ROF
energy drain be positive for your team while negatively affect oppents
easy to play
poor hex removal

blessed light
excellent against heavy degen
poor self heal for monks (main reason i dont encourage blessed light)

in a split boon prot is more effective in holding his own while keeping up the party.

Bolygo · Aug 30, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Sektor, you are pretty wrong :P

Boonprots arent easy to play, it takes a very long time to get a good boonprot.
The point of Blessed Light monks is, that while they are keeping the party hexfree, they dont need that much selfheal, because they usually have Dark Escape, and Return, this allows them to kite/absorb damage very effectively.

In splits, its all about the situation.
Camping in your Lord Area and Playing defensively, thats very nice with a booner for example, offensive team benefits more from a BL monk, since he has speed boost, easier to escape if they send back an anti-gank squad etc etc.

I think according to the current situation 1 Boon/1 Blessed is the best monk backline.

Lord Dark Genie · Aug 30, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Blessed Light monks aren't limited to Mo/A. I don't really like those, I prefer Mo/Me with some e-management and distortion.

That choice depends a lot on the team build though.